[Nix-dev] Why having releases if you break things in it often

Sat Feb 11 05:36:41 CET 2017

Hello Roger,

first thanks for the answer, second I dont even understand what you are
saying :)

You seem to think that I read all manpages of all nix*-tools 20 times,
and maybe 1 2 books on nixos.

I mean yes I know nix(os) is not only a package manager, but a kind of
configuration system, so maybe I am supposed to have a MUCH harder
learning curve.

I am a emacs user so I thought I am kind of used to that, but heck you
nixos guys all talk like spanish to me.

I kind of have a partial idea what it could mean what you are saying,
but even if I am right, I would have no idea how to do that.

That version of flexget seems to run, in a old boot-configuration:

/nix/store/61lmhiim2bhw3i76c7aq0xr7i6zgfcv8-python2.7-FlexGet-1.2.337/bin/.flexget-wrapped

btw why are there 20 entries in grub bug nix-env --list-generations
shows me only 2?

so is there a way to link my current installation or a new updated
profile to that flexget version?

Thanks

Roger Qiu <roger.qiu at matrix.ai> writes:

> Hey, I'd suggest for you to not use channels. I don't. Pin your nixpkgs to a commit hash. And upgrade when
> you want to/need to. This should be the recommended way IMHO.
>
> On 11/02/2017 10:07 AM, "Stefan Huchler" <stefan.huchler at mail.de> wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>
>  I start to get frustrated again, the documentation of nixos is not very
>  good if you do more than just the most basic stuff.
>
>  So you kind of are if you are not a full-time nixos developer dependend
>  of help from the developers.
>
>  So I wrote here about the bug, then I startet a bugreport:
>
>  https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/22246
>
>  Nothing happens at all. Well nobody else does anything about lets try to
>  find a workaround.
>
>  I dont even care anymore if it is a imperative solution or anything, its
>  just absolutly inaccaptable that there not even any workaround.
>
>  I may have a different bug now after maybe installing a different
>  version (unstable) of flexget, now its with beautifulsoup.
>
>  nix-env -f
>  https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs-channels/archive/nixos-unstable.tar.gz
>  -i python2.7-FlexGet-1.2.337
>
>  I did that. Now I get the next error, how can that be such a big big bug
>  in every channels and completly broken and no real solution there, if a
>  change messes up such huge stuff cant you revert it?
>
>  in other distros I would use just python-pip and it would work, now you
>  took the challenge on you to manage that, but if that leads to MORE
>  problems then pip already has, it really sucks.
>
>  I still dont get how you can brake working things just cause of some minor
>  security problems.
>
>  And of course some bad things happen, but at least give either a fast
>  fix or as alternative any workaround.
>
>  There are 85 mio nix* commands/options and config files, I am not a full-time
>  nixos developer, I dont understand all of that many different ways you
>  can do stuff.
>
>  So any help would be nice. I am a technicaly shurly keen guy, but I cant
>  reboot daily my machine for months, cause nobody of you experts can
>  invest 5-15 mins to fix that.
>
>  Sorry for whining but I am not used to me throwing brain and time after
>  something x times and nothing advances at all.
>
>  I dont want to be a 100% full time nixos developer / sysadmin just to
>  solve such stupid problem. Except somebody would pay me for that, then I
>  would think about it.
>
>  I guess its maybe a rare case that you have 2 versions that both dont
>  work 100%, so I cant just use a older version and wait months till you
>  fix that problem finaly. But even than it would suck cause I cant really
>  test new configurations in taht case.
>
>  I would try to learn nixos better, but the documentation is horrible. I
>  had 0 problems using, ubuntu / fedora / debian / archlinux / gentoo, but
>  the doku of nixos is horrible.
>
>  Heck if I want to know a package name I have to search on github for
>  package names and options.
>
>  So
>  1. bug reports dont work...
>  2. RTFM cant be done because the doku is horrible
>  3. mailing list seem to not work either?
>
>  Is that really what I have to expect?
>
>  Sorry for ranting here, I stopp now, but maybe some of that feedback
>  helps you to improve something, and maybe somebody could give me some
>  config lines or nix-env commands that gets flexget running again.
>
>  Graham Christensen <graham at grahamc.com> writes:
>
>  > I'm very sorry you've had a bad experience with breakage on stable. :( I
>  > use 16.09 myself.
>  >
>  >>> yes I think that html5lib thing would it be. So it was at least a
>  >>> security fix, so you dont just update stuff to update it, which would
>  >>> make releases pretty useless concept :)
>  >
>  > Roughly, this is why backports happen:
>  >
>  > - Security patches which aren't major updates
>  > - If a security patch is a major upgrade, try and find patches to our
>  > current version which accomplish the same goal. Apply the major
>  > update to master, and the patches to stable.
>  > - Bug fixes to applications which, again, aren't major updates.
>  > Generally be cautious about these.
>  > - Any updates when the current stable version is utterly broken. A key
>  > example of this is Spotify, who regularly breaks their old versions.
>  > - Extremely security-sensitive software, in particular Chrome,
>  > Chromium, Firefox, Thunderbird, and of course the kernel.
>  >
>  >>> Sorry I formulated that message a bit trollish, but just wanted to learn
>  >>> why how releases are done in nixos.
>  >
>  > Please know that Freddy, Franz, Robin, Domen, myself, and the rest of
>  > the people contributing to NixOS work very hard to keep the stable
>  > version of NixOS working nicely. This is very important to us.
>  >
>  > It can be very stressful when preparing to backport changes, but it is
>  > important to do them anyway. I try to think through impact and run tests
>  > across a wide range of software to see what will break. We also try not
>  > to backport any substantial changes, but instead smaller patches to
>  > prevent breakage.
>  >
>  > When you do find breakage, please do promptly open an issue on send a
>  > report on the mailing list so we can address the problem and perhaps add
>  > testing to prevent it in the future. We're also quite accessible on the
>  > #nixos IRC channel on Freenode.
>  >
>  > If you would like to take part in the process of identifying and solving
>  > security problems on master and backporting to stable, we sure would
>  > love the extra help -- feel free to comment on
>  > https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/21967 and I'll tag you on
>  > Wednesday when I open the next roundup.
>  >
>  > Best,
>  > Graham Christensen
>
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